David R. Katerere
Part II – we discuss reconciliation and how national healing can be done differently in Zimbabwe and learn from Rwanda.
Bob Scott (BS) - One of the things I talk about with my Zimbabwean friends here in the US is why are Zimbabweans so communal? One of my friends made an astute observation when I asked about this. He said, “well we have to be communal, we can’t survive without other people”.
In American culture on the other hand we can be independently wealthy, which is why we have become fragmented. Everybody pursues jobs and individual happiness.
Therefore the communal culture is very natural to Zimbabwe which is why the Community of Reconciliation thrived because the locals understood it; it was natural to their way of life.
David Katerere (DK) - Are you going to meet with people involved in the reconciliation process?
BS - I would love to meet them. I have written to Minister Sekai Holland and shared some of my thoughts with her. One of the things I said was that I am not sure that reconciliation is something that can be legislated, it’s not something you can force people to do. Reconciliation is really a heart issue because it deals with things like forgiveness.
From what I have been reading it sounds like the reconciliation process in Zimbabwe is a lot about what are the wronged individuals going to get out of it - you did this bad thing to me, so I want that. It seems to be all about retribution and restitution and that concerns me because it is premature. Rwanda is a great example of how it can be done. One of the things that they realized there was that in order to bring about reconciliation people need to hear the words “I am sorry”. I think that these words “I am sorry” are the most powerful words in the human language.
In Zimbabwe everybody is trying to blame everybody else for what happened and my feeling is that the people in the process need to look at themselves and take personal responsibility – say to themselves, “what did I do wrong”?
I think when that spirit begins to grip people, when that heart attitude takes hold then the country can move forward.
DK – But the country is still stuck in that mode. We can’t move forward until after this transition, can we?
BS - In the book I talk about the great apostle Paul who said, “We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”. All three groups, the British, Shonas and Ndebeles, they have sinned against one another; they have done wrong to one another. They should look at each other and say “we are sorry, we take responsibility for our mistakes”. Then the next step is to say, well, we can only move forward if we forgive each other.
DK - But there has been no acknowledgement of wrong doing on the parts of the Rhodesians, or the for the Matabeleland massacres or the more recent election –related violence. Reports on what happened have been suppressed, so in that atmosphere it becomes difficult to move forward. When people ask for forgiveness, therefore, are they being sensitive or just being politically expedient?
BS - Well, there will be people like that and there is nothing you can do about that. But people who will have the courage to get into a room, look at each other in the eye and say “I am sorry” those people can move forward. Think about Rwanda – getting back to that example again, you have people in Rwanda living next door to people they know killed their family; how can that be possible? From a human dynamic, how is that even possible?
Well, it is because of forgiveness and there is a whole process they have used to get to that point. In the community, in every case, it’s about the perpetrator saying to the victim, “I am sorry, I wronged you, please forgive me” and the victim having to then make a decision about what they are going to do. Once they say, “I forgive you”, then it’s done, and restitution begins. The perpetrator because of the fact that he wants forgiveness then asks how he can make right. He is not being forced to do it, he is doing it out of his heart.
You see, forgiveness brings a brokenness to the human soul and that is what we don’t yet see in Zimbabwe. What you see is arrogance and pride and everyone digging in, something Jesus called “self-righteousness” and that’s what we need to deal with.
DK - Your message is about social justice?
What I am interested in is spiritual justice which plays itself out in the social environment.
DK - Social justice seems to be a dirty world in the US right now, so are you a communist?!!
BS - (Laughs). O God! It’s interesting to me because unfortunately what’s happening in my country (the US) right now is that Christianity is starting to be defined by political ideology. And that saddens me.
The issue I have with socialism as a political ideology is that I don’t think you can legislate generosity. I see justice as restorative and I write about that in the book. Justice is about balancing the scales. When Jesus healed a sick person, I think in my mind he saw it as justice – sin had come in, nature had come in and robbed somebody of their health. He used the power he had to restore that person to wholeness. That was justice done.
So in the scriptures, Jesus kept saying that those that have wealth must share with others. But in socialism you force people to give away their wealth when it should be a heart thing.
DK – You have set up an organization and called it Compassionate Justice, where does that name come from?
BS - When I first published the book some friends came to me and suggested that the book would create an opportunity to do some practical things and advised that I register a legal entity, an NGO. I didn’t know what to name the NGO and so I started asking myself, “what are the things I value the most in my life, in other words, what makes me me?”
I realized that since I was a child, I have been given a compassionate heart; I have always cared deeply about the plight of the poor; I hate oppression, it makes me angry, I want to see justice done.
So compassion and justice come naturally to me and hence the name was such an obvious choice. And I see that kind of justice as being divine rather than civil justice and that type of justice is about restoring. So whether it’s healing the sick, feeding the poor, empowering women in small businesses, rehabilitating land which has been abused – all that is compassionate justice. And that is the prophetic vision I have for Zimbabwe – restorative justice, compassionate justice.
http://www.savingzimbabwe.com/
http://www.compassionatejustice.com
